Oppose “women’s ordination” and feel the wrath

Today is the first day since Saturday my head has felt reasonably sound, though my throat is swollen, making breathing at night quite difficult. When the brethren share, they really share, colds included. And when I get a cold in this sceptred isle, I really get it. Something to offer up at least.

So when I turned on my computer yesterday afternoon I was not in the mood for one email awaiting me. So I ignored it. This evening, feeling somewhat less fractious, I re-read it. It’s lack of salutation or any normal civility made me think it was meant to be a comment to the post it was referring to, namely my recent one on women’s ordination. It was in response to a particular event, which revealed a foundation not in Catholic theology but in feminist ideology. So if it was meant as a comment, it seems right to post it so that all can read an opposing point of view. However, it could also be taken as a threat and an attempt to bully. You can decide. I quote the email in its entirety, though I have camouflaged the author’s name to spare her the embarrassment she brings on herself:

As the National Coordinating Group of Catholic Women’s Ordination, which campaigns and prays for ordained women’s ministry in a reformed Roman Catholic Church in the UK, we are deeply concerned about the tone of your blog. After much prayer and experience, and despite ridicule from some members of the RC Church, some of us feel called to priesthood, and believe we are required to continue listening to that calling, though we are unable to test it out because we are not currently permitted to do so. We wonder why you feel compelled publicly to direspect (sic) women who believe they have been called by the Holy Spirit to this work. We would hope that any priest who disagrees that women can become priests would pray about it. We would like you to consult your Abbot, withdraw these postings and reflect on why you feel the need to write these kinds of postings which might be seen by children as well as adults, priests and religious. We pray that you will find some God-given work to do with your time.

We have also agreed we will contact your Abbot.

P***a B****r on behalf of the National Coordinating Group

Note some features. The clear and irreformable teaching of the Church on the impossibility of ordaining women is caricatured as “ridicule from some members of the RC Church”. As an aside, what Catholic ever refers to the “RC Church”? Is the complainant Catholic?

The argumentation is based not on theology or scripture, but on feeling called. To expound the Church’s teaching is labelled with the emotive and ridiculous accusation that it is to “direspect (sic) women”. Any priest who upholds Church teaching (which he is ordained to uphold and expound) is now described as “any priest who disagrees that women can become priests”, and we are told we should “pray about it”. What is there to pray about: to obey or disobey Church teaching? Our Lord’s direction is already clear on that one, as you will see in Matthew 16:18-19.

My particular favourites are Ms B****r’s concern that my argument may be “seen by children” – really?! – and that I should find some “God-given work to do” – because defending and professing Church teaching is somehow not God-given, naturally.

Then there is the last bit – they will contact my abbot. That is nothing but a threat, which is of course why it was made in an email and not in a public comment. They seem to think my abbot is liable to take umbrage at one of his monks defending Church teaching. It is conceivably possible I suppose. But really there is little to threaten me with: I have no parish, no grand ministry, no status at all – I am pretty much as low as you can get in my monastery. Some priests have more to lose from malicious complainants and opponents of Church teaching, as the recent attack on Fr Blake affirms. The aim, I suspect, is to get him removed from his parish. That said, I doubt that threat will scare him much.

It is said that some feminists, secularists and militant atheists feel unable to meet an argument with a counter-argument, but resort to emotional blackmail and thinly-veiled threats to silence those whom they oppose. All it does, in the eyes at least of the thoughtful onlooker, is to undermine whatever foundation their position might have had. Did the post in question disrespect women? The women who commented did not express any sense of being disrespected, not least because they knew no disrespect was either intended or expressed.

There is one clear result of this email: I am more convinced than ever that the Church’s teaching is 100% right, both now and for eternity. Let us pray for those who do not have such conviction, and that wer might all pray, with Christ, to the Father, “not my will, but yours be done”.

Pax.

48 thoughts on “Oppose “women’s ordination” and feel the wrath

  1. I do wonder sometimes why the likes of these organisations remain even nominally Catholic. They clearly don’t accept the teachings of the Church.

    This is akin to a vegetarian getting a job in McDonalds and stamping their feet and issuing threats until McDonalds stops serving meat!

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    1. Remember the “RC Church” reference and the event I was responding to in the original post: so many in this movement are not Catholics at all. Rather the Catholic, oops, RC Church is yet another battleground in a wider-reaching war.

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  2. On the day that the Church in Wales voted to ordain women bishops one wonders if your correspondent is indeed Roman Catholic or an Anglican calling herself catholic. I have never heard of the ‘Reformed Catholic Church’ – sounds a bit heretical to me.
    But what do I know.

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      1. The clue to this church’s origins and orientation is here ( from their website): “Although we are a newly formed rite, we remain in the traditions of the Orthodox Catholic churches and the Old Catholic Church of Utrecht.”

        In the UK, there was: http://stfrancislcc.bravehost.com/ (allied to the Theosophists etc) – not sure if they are still operating, as the site seems to have been sold. I am extremely tolerant of other beliefs but one thing these people are not is Roman Catholic.

        So, it seems to me to be sensible to avoid any attempt to stray from the orthodox Church, simply because you do not know who you may end up ‘worshipping’ with. No harm is meant to well-intentioned people but once you start down the modernising road, you will not know where it might lead…

        Chin up, Father – take it as a compliment that so many people are obviously reading your blog!

        (btw, the gravatar is not of my choosing!)

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      2. HI. Don’t worry – I am well used to the weird gravatars!

        Probably I should not have linked direct to the Reformed Catholic Church – no doubt they have had more traffic in the last 24 hours than they have had in a month (despite the fact that mine is a little blog). In truth there are all sorts of weird and wonderful “Catholic” denominations which try to gain a shred of legitimacy by getting some Old Catholic to ordain them. The Old Catholic familia of sects long ago lost any semblance to orthodox Christianity and has become another type of protestantism, or do-it-yourself religion. The main difference between them and protestants of course is that the latter take the Bible seriously.

        One reason Old Catholic bishops are sought for ordinations is that they are believed the be in the apostolic succession. From one angle this is true as the first Old Catholic bishops had been true Catholic bishops with valid orders. Does this make subsequent ordinations valid? Some, perhaps; all, not likely. One basic premise for the validity of a sacrament is that the minister intends to do what the Church does in the particular sacrament; thus a bishop must intend to do what the Church does in ordaining a priest, for example. Now a priest is ordained to offer the Sacrifice, and it is improbable that these sects have any sense of their priests offering the sacrifice of Calvary. Thus I doubt there are few if any with valid orders in those sects. They are just play acting.

        As are those women who are supposedly ordained, not least the women ‘bishops’ doing the ordaining. It is all play acting, and very childish. This will give you a good idea of what I am talking about – http://t.co/0Y2FOcorXy

        Outside the Church there is no salvation. This is a complex (not simplistic) teaching that needs to be re-discovered in the modern context.

        Pax!

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  3. Sadly Fr Hugh these types of individuals, so infected by the leftist secularist and feminist ideology live in the wrong age. Stalinist Russia or Nazi Germany would have been more suitable for their totalitarian tendencies. When the game doesn’t suit they do the big dummy spit and come with the line “I’m telling on you!” not forgetting the sanctimonious advice to you “to pray about it”.

    I’m sure you will be able to cope and wish you a speedy recovery from your nasty throat infection.

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  4. Hi Father, best post ever. Thanks for continuing to holding aloft Catholicism as a beacon of Christ’s light rather than the weapon of hate these poor lost souls think we are. God bless you. Hope you feel better soon. FC

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    1. Thanks FC for your support. Not that I am currying compliments, but only trying to show that certain currents still flow briskly, though not as strongly as they once did.

      I had better hit the hay since I have taken some ibuprofen – I hope it will knock me out despite my throat.

      Pax!

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  5. First of all Father, I pray that you will soon feel much better–best to be of a sound body when doing battle with our old adversary and his “assistants”–secondly, as I tend to be a bit reactionary when I hear or read of the aforementioned e-mail you received it would behoove me to step back a day before responding. For now, please know that as a sad wandering Episcopalian, who does indeed oppose the ordination of both female and gay individuals to any priesthood, or pastorate…I commend you and I am thankful for your teaching of the Scriptures as true and for your taking your vows very seriously.
    I will pop back in tomorrow, as I reflect and pray over a response–as I suppose since she, whoever she is who wrote the e-mail 😉 , wishes that your blog be removed, is in essence removing your “followers” of the blog, of which I do not wish to go….so I too have a small dog in this fight–Peace and Grace father, which indeed passes all understanding–
    Julie

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    1. Hi Julie. You caught me just as I was about to hit the hay – the pills are kicking in! Your comment is a good note for me to logoff on.

      Thank you for reminding me that in the Anglican Communion there are in fact still people who take Christ, scripture, dogma and the supernatural seriously. I can be too dismissive too often. Mea culpa.

      You may be right about the intention of the email. Maybe she will win, but it won’t be by my doing. And anyway, there will be more, and far better, to replace me.

      Pax!

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    1. Quite true, as evidenced by some of the commenters here. The feminism that seeks identity with men (as distinct from equality) is very 1960s/1970s: women don’t burn their bras and dress in masculine garb much any more, nor do they feel they must ape men in every aspect. The modern woman seems far happier being thoroughly female, and no less equal for it.

      Pax.

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    1. Indeed. He has already confirmed the definitive teaching of Bl. John Paul II that the ordination of women is not possible. But some people will only hear what suits them, a common attribute of fallen humanity.

      Pax.

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  6. Bravo, Father! Thank you so much for posting this and refuting it so logically. The liberals make my head spin. I wonder, sometimes, if these militant feminists ever pray the rosary? Or is that too old fashioned? The reason I wonder this is, they seem to be lacking greatly in the humility and sense of obedience that a daily rosary graces upon a soul. Its a shame, really. Prayers for you and your God-given work.

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    1. Thank you Jenny.

      You have put a thought into my tender head: the practical necessity of saying the rosary as part of a healthy spiritual life. It takes the focus off oneself and puts it on Jesus in company with his mother. For those who can do it, the Divine Office has the same benefit. So many of the modern meditation techniques are little more than navel gazing.

      Pax!

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  7. Fr Hugh, I think you have hit upon a very important point: the key for these ladies is not a rational argument about what the Church teaches and why but about how they “feel.” A recent conversation I had on this subject:

    Me: “Everything was spelled out clearly and definitively in Ordinatio Sacerdotalis.”
    Other half of the conversation: “I haven’t read it, but this is about more than women’s ordination, it’s about the Church’s way of treating women–its theology of women.”
    Me: “Well, Bl John Paul II also addressed that in some depth in Mulieris Dignitatem.”
    Other: “I haven’t read that.”
    Me: *Sigh*

    Pax and good health!

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  8. I’ve always felt that the assertion by some women’s ordination groups that “God is calling us to be Roman Catholic priests” is simply nonsense. God does not ask us to do the impossible and this is impossible. In other words, this claim appears to say God is not reasonable in his demands of us.

    (It may be that God is calling them to be clergy elsewhere or even to campaign for a change in the Catholic Church, but those are different assertions).

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    1. Certainly that is one logical conclusion, and is in accord with Bl. John Paul II’s teaching. Another point to note is that no person is self-validating: any call to serve the Church that I might feel I have has to be authenticated by the Church. Just because I feel something to be true does not mean it is so. The tyranny of feelings!

      Pax.

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  9. From Twitter:

    Rorate Caeli ‏@RorateCaeli 2m

    “Women can never, ever, be priests and the matter was absolutely closed by Pope John Paul II.” Happy “anniversary” of 6 months, Holy Father!

    Sorted – do you not agree Father. (Hope your correspondent is reading this).

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  10. Happy day to you Father, hoping you are slowly but surly feeling better, at least physically–as I know this latest bleep on the radar has your head, as well as other’s spinning. I wanted to “sleep on” the situation of the e-mail you received yesterday regarding woman’s ordination and of your opposition to such as is showcased to some degree in your blog.
    My first concern is when did it become wrong to have a difference of opinion—say, as these woman seem to have from that of Catholic doctrine? Catholic doctrine, as reaffirmed by Pope Francis, seems pretty clear cut as to the position of the Vatican to the ordination issue of woman….a resounding NO. Yet the various woman’s groups out there are still balking at the latest declaration of NO. They have a difference of opinion—and yet they will not allow you to have yours….interesting.
    I realize that I am an outsider looking in as it were, with my being an Episcopalian—albeit one who has walked away as I can no longer abide by the liberal based theology that is plaguing the Anglican Communion. Yes, I am leaning towards my very Catholic roots as the Anglican church is indeed steeped in the one holy catholic and apostolic church–it’s just that a catholic king didn’t like being told what to do and decided to be disobedient–humm… and went out on a limb,–and now look at where we are…forgive my digressing in history.
    I am greatly pained by the direction of the Episcopal Church, the Anglican Church and the various groups “out there” that continue to push and promote the two areas of gravest contention–and that being the ordination of both woman and gay individuals to the priesthood.
    (and lets not bring up the rite of marriage in the church and the gay community’s desire for that “right” as well) Both of which are counter to Holy Scripture—but that just seems to be a mere technicality to these groups. Who was it that said we could or should reword Holy Scripture as necessary to suit our fancies– because I seem to have missed that edict.
    I have tried to understand these two most divisive issues with my thoughts always coming back to one simple issue…and that being the issue of obedience. Western society especially seems to have such and issue with obedience. We tend to want to be obedient to no one but ourselves….as this all leads back to the battle of ego.
    The other concern is that these groups claim to be allowing the Holy Spirit to direct their paths—I do not recall that the Holy Spirit is one to be leading the faithful to disobedience. Does Holy Scripture call us to be schismatic or divisive under the Law? If it does, then I seem to have missed that as well.
    I don’t recall a “do as you please” clause. This all sounds of selfishness and of the fulfilling of selfish desires and not yielding to that of the greater Good. These woman would rather cause pain, harm, discord and hurt in order to have their way verses healing, reconciliation, and mirroring Grace.
    I trust your Abbot will have the foresight to see that the mere blog of a mere monk, as you so aptly remind us, is no saber rattling act of heresy… but the mere affirmation of what Holy Scripture teaches us as reaffirmed by the Mother Church. I for one find it a tremendous comfort that in the wake of a sea of disobedience, a few remain faithful to the Word of God.
    Blessings Father—julie

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    1. Dear Julie, thank you for a thoughtful and heartfelt reply.

      You touched on ego, and here you touched on an essential element of the current crisis in faith and doctrine: individualism. If I come into conflict with established doctrines and traditions, then I must be right and they must be wrong, at least (I might say) for me (and here we get relativism thrown into the mix). It is this same I who will ceaselessly demand rights to anything I feel I should have right to. Responsibility to and for others is subordinated to the sovereign and overriding independence of I. Every I becomes his/her own pope. It is at the heart of Protestantism: the rejection of any other authority except self.

      That is why some people will not listen to Church teaching, because they do not accept its authority. In fact it has no more authority than any other denomination for them. This is why they can go through their mock ordinations in liberal Protestant church buildings. It is of no consequence to them. This is why they can unite with Protestants, Buddhists, Jews, Muslims et al in the cause of ordaining women, because the doctrinal issue of ordination is subordinate to the overriding issue of self-assertion, wed in this instance to feminism.

      If you look a few comments above you will see a link which is worth following. It demonstrates that the essential issue on the teaching that women cannot be ordained is not about women, or even theology, as much as it is an issue about the Church. It is not a difficult read and is worth the effort. Given your current ecclesial doubts, you may find it doubly helpful.

      When Christ ascended he did not leave behind and commission a book, nor a wisdom (gnosis), nor a fanclub. He left behind and commissioned a Church with a basic structure of guaranteed authority: “he who hears you, hears Me”. Every created element in Christianity serves the Church’s mission to bring the Good News of salvation to all the earth, the first words of which were and are “Repent and believe”. So the Bible, the sacraments, the priesthood, the liturgy etc, all serve this one mission. The Church’s mission is none other than Christ’s. Deny it, and you deny Christ. Deny the Church’s authority and you deny Christ’s authority. In the midst of all the complexities of human life and of theology, this basic and essential truth is not too hard to grasp. For many, however, it appears too hard to submit to. I must be right. Which surely is why Christ taught us so explicitly, And he said to all, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. (Luke 9:23) There is the formula for true discipleship: self-denial, the Cross, following the Master, who abides on earth in his Body, the Church.

      My head is fuzzy after all that. Back to bed! For now, peace upon you. May the Lord make his voice clear to you.

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  11. Fratres sobrii estote et vigilate: quia adversarius vester diabolus, tamquam leo rugiens, circuit quærens quem devoret: cui resistite fortes in fide.

    What a horrid email, my sympathies, I don’t want to get Apocalyptic but there are some malevolent forces around at the moment. Be strong in The Faith, otherwise we are lost.
    All these things are part of the Cross we adore and gladly bear for His sake.

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    1. Salve Pater! You have experienced far more than I have the work of the forces of the Prince of Chaos and of Lies. He seemed to triumph on Calvary hill, but in fact he had been defeated. We know too that his little victories in our lives will add up to his total vanquishing on the Day of reckoning.

      I find it of most cheering to see fellow Catholics, and fellow priests especially**, standing so firm in the face of Evil. He does not need us to turn to him; it is enough for him that we turn from the struggle. To see you and others not turning away is one of the blessings of the Church, in which we all share in each other’s strength, a strength which comes of course from being in the Lord’s Body.

      It is a sadness to me that the verse you quoted is here confined only to Tuesday’s Compline. It is in the shadows of our night that Evil is most active, and most effective. Fittingly, it is when newspapers seem to do most of their work.

      Peace upon you! You do not stand alone.

      ** (For the reader who might be taken aback, I mentioned “fellow priests especially” not as some sort of nod to a “clerical club” whose members consider themselves better. We are not better, perhaps we are worse. But by being priests we are different, and our trials are different and often, perhaps, also worse, in spiritual terms at least. For the Devil knows if he can make the shepherd fall, achieving the fall of the flock will be that much easier.)

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  12. It’s quite a lot of words to describe what can practically be explained like so: what female Priest could administer the sacrament of penance to a middle-aged construction worker making his confession after 30 years of spousal battery, pornography addiction, chronic drunkenness, unspeakable acts with prostitutes; a real moral train wreck?

    Also, if a female speaks the words of Consecration, there occurs no change in substance to the bread and wine. Transubstantiation of the Eucharist occurs only–all other conditions having been met–if a male speaks the correct words.

    The desire of women to become Priests is based on Satan’s promise to all females: liberation from sensual guilt is obtained through acquisition of masculinity, because males suffer no guilt for sensual pleasure. But, like every message from Satan, it’s a lie. Such women are antichrists, because they seek redemption through Ordination, but redemption is only through the Sacred Heart of Christ..

    The real issue is female guilt for sensual pleasure. Once women know the Truth they readily conform to a life of prayer, alms-giving and mortification.

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  13. Fr Hugh, I hope you have recovered from your cold. I have been looking at the way Catholic bloggers have recently come under concerted attack. (After the Fr Blake affair, the Protect the Pope blog is now being directly targeted by “Quest”, the homosexual lobby group.) Making it my business to do a little research on some of these dissenting groups, one thing became apparent: there is no mention of any such group as “National Coordinating Group of Catholic Women’s Ordination” anywhere else on the internet except in the quotation of that email on your blog. I believe there is no such group and this email is a mischievous piece of trolling by a lone malicious bully.

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    1. Salve! Thanks for taking the time to write.

      On Twitter someone quickly identified the person whose name I had partly blanked out, which made me think she must be fairly well known for her feminist activity against the Church. And the entity does exist. I do not want to post a direct link, since I would hate traffic to be going directly from here to there! But you can fill in the spaces – http://www.c*thol*c-wo*ens-ord*nati*n.org.uk/contact.htm . On their site you will find a most extraordinary “prayer” for women’s ordination, which reads as a political manifesto rather than a prayer.

      However, you may well be on the right track about numbers. While there is seemingly more than one involved, I suspect the numbers nowhere near approach a “monstrous regiment”.

      I had no idea Protect the Pope was now in the cross-hairs. Long may it prosper!

      Pax.

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  14. Thank you for all your comments and reflections, Fr!
    JPII considered radical feminism “dangerous” and, indeed, he was right!
    In the Western World, radical feminism has grown into a cancer, threatening to engulf the whole body. Remember that the abortion ageda once started, in the 20’s, by Margaret Sanger, whose openly racist ideas and horrific statements of babies, the unborn as well as the born ones, have been carefully concealed by the feminists and the culture-od death-supporters. She was a lesbian, as well.
    The church is in no need of women priests. Instead, she is in great need of HOLY priests, devoted to the church, to the parishioners.
    We also desperately ned priests WHO appreciate, love and encourage Latin and gregorian chant at Mass. Beautiful, sacred and DIGNIFIED music!
    I totally agree with you as for the horrendous attacks in the media on Fr Ray Blake! I have been praying for him ever since. There must be many psychopats in the media world today, since, obviously, they seem even to enjoy working hard to destroy good peoples’ (especially!) good name.
    Very annoying and disturbing is that so many-the majority? of parishioners are totally uaware of the gross manipulation they are subjected to by catholic hating journalists; they gladly swallow every Word they write, even about such an obviously very, very good, hard working, faithful priest as Fr Ray Blake!
    in my opinion, PARISHIONERS WHO FAIL TO SUPPORT SUCH A GOOD PRIEST AS FR RAY DO NOT DESERVE A GOOD PRIEST!!

    And: I expect the BISHOP in Brighton to demonstrate OPENLY his support for Fr Ray! Continously!
    We have seen enough of silent bishops over the past many years, lacking the necessary courage. Not dealing with the pink mafia scandals.
    But pope em Benedict did!! More than anyone before, or after him!
    Sometimes, thinking of all this, I feel the need of going into deep prayer. Saying many spontaneous prayers during the day is of great comfort.

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    1. You’ve said a lot things that make sense Margaret. But militant feminists know one thing that gives them courage and vim: if they snarl loud and long enough bishops and superiors will cave into them. Benedict XVI didn’t cave in – another reason to miss him!

      Pax.

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      1. I couldn’t agree more to what you are saying, Fr Hugh; it has been a shock to discover, ever since we were received into full communion with the glorious catholic church, seven years ago, how “bishops and superiors” have “caved in ” to the aggressive feminists. That catholics could even consider being against their pope, was sth that did not even exist in our imagination. How could even a quite uneducated catholic imagine him/herself being more knowledgeable, wiser and more intelligent than such a genius like Benedictus?! We are not naive but of course, in retrospect, we realize that this view was unrealistic. Sometimes, I wish that catholics in parishes could have more of the same courage as the feminists using it to, defend the church and Christ against the attacks. Attacks which, just as Benedict stated, are mainly coming “from within” today.
        My husband and I still MISS BENEDICT. We always felt absolutely safe with him, with every word and action. It was a “Heart to Heart “experience, throughout his pontificate.
        We pray for him and for pope Francis.

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  15. I hear from a friend Father that some members of the Douai monastic community are not very supportive of this blog-ministry of yours, to say no more. Why not transfer to somewhere like Farnborough Abbey? They would surely support you in your valiant efforts to promote the teachings of the Catholic Church.

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    1. Well, Mary, I imagine that some of the brethren object to more about me than just my blog!

      A crucial aspect of monastic community life is that the brethren bear with the individual monk, and also that he bears with the brethren. My personal failings aside, my blog may contain an occasional error in tone or tactic, but none that I can see in doctrine or concern for the Church. If that is to be held against me, then it is a judgment I do not fear as the Lord will make clear and uphold the right in his own good time.

      The more worrying thing is that no monk has raised any issue from the blog with me personally. You seem to know more about the opinions of some monks about me than I do. That rather suggests that somewhere along the line there has been a sin against monastic communion at the very least. It may possibly be justifiable, but I cannot see it at this point. Time will tell.

      Pax.

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      1. No sin against monastic communion but monks have family and friends and the monastic communion is wider than you seem to understand. Promoting the teachings of the Catholic Church is what Douai Abbey does, but I cannot help thinking that yo would be happier in a more supportive environment. Your ministry, good health and sanity require it.

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  16. Mary, I don’t pretend to speak for Fr Hugh, but as a Benedictine myself, I have to point out that we discern our vocation to a particular community and make our vow of stability in that community. Of course you are trying to be helpful and encouraging, but it is really not possible for someone else to discern that a Benedictine should take the extraordinary step of transferring their stability to another house. Pax!

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  17. Transferring one’s stability is not unusual nor impossible and is sometimes neccesary to protect one’s ministry. Remember that Fr Hugh is priest first and a monk second. His priestly status trumps his monastic profession – women Benedictines need to understand this.

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